why i left saddleback churchwarren community center gym

If SBC leadership wont speak out against this, then both Saddleback and the SBC would be exposed for poor doctrine. Thank you so much for commenting! 1.) Or you can do this, and then your church will explode in size because your pastor is a self-help guru, not a faithful preacher of the Word of God. Paul wanted to stick to the Faith when others beliefs crept in. There have been occasions throughout history where it happened. You are not phased by negativity and your focus is on scripture which I love. It is your opinion that you find the message to not be clear. Even if Saddleback in the end is OK with disfellowship and wants to move on, I hope they will appeal it if for no other reason than to allow their brothers and sisters in Christ, who do not want to see this happen to other churches, to debate this on the floor of the annual convention in an orderly process governed by Roberts Rules of Order. That doesnt mean I cant draw attention to dangerous or lukewarm teachers and churches. Bill Hybels, senior pastor of Willow Creek Community Church, said that in ministry youve got to be able to discern the difference between good hard and destructive hard. Good hard is healthy sacrifice. Regardless, most addicts in recovery realize they need god to stay in recovery and a new journey with the lord begins. Holy Communion!!!! 1.) Warren started the Southern California church in 1980 after graduating. Self-promotion and pastor dont seem to jive. Of course your theology probably believes that battle is futile because your sovereign uncaring god had already condemned all but those who believe as you to hell anyway. Im not hammering anyone. But by the end of the 2030s, the controversy will melt into consensus. At the same time, the Bible isnt really open to multiple interpretations in most places. Celebrate Recovery shares how to be born again, but the programs focus is the program. Among those who worry about an increasingly authoritarian stance by the SBC is Benjamin Cole, 46, a former Southern Baptist pastor in Texas who has been attending Southern Baptist conventions for nearly 30 years. Pastor Andy Wood and his wife, Stacie, outside Saddleback Church in Lake Forest. But women are excluded from the role of pastor. People only have so much time, and if they say yes to your churchs volunteer opportunity, theyre saying no to something else. Its not about salvation or the gospel or Jesus, its about admitting they are powerless, and asking God to help. Saddleback Church, Rick Warren, The Purpose Driven Life, and Celebrate Recovery have always been on my something-aint-right-here list. Pastors come up with excuses for people, like, Oh well, Im sure theyre busy. That may be true, but they can still challenge busy people by saying, You need to be doing something for the kingdom. I will be praying for you. Thanks for the comment, but Im not sure what your Bible reference has to do with my post. Get Connected Yes, but if somehow you managed to get saved through this clumsy attempt at sharing the gospel, you have no guidance in how to find a church besides Saddleback. Progressive Christianity: https://thesetapartwalk.com/progressive-christianity-not-all-progress-is-good/ 3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. I know Im just a regular person and havent started my own female-ordaining mega-church, but maybe having access to Gods Word should have been a bit sooner? If so, what was the outcome? Sadly, most negative comments I get on this post ultimately make the same points. You, and many others, assume the worst and think I am speaking from my personal viewpoint. My concerns about Rick Warren and Saddleback are not about mistakes, though. Guess what.., the men you criticize are actually in the trenches fighting fir the souls of men. Pastors can ask questions like, Whats the state of my soul? Am I drained? Am I actually leading others while running on empty myself? Am I more irritable? Often those are signs of unhealthy motivation. Witnesses offer conflicting accounts, Mars Voltas lead singer broke with Scientology and reunited with the band. Bethel and Hillsong are also doing the same thing. Difficult is to recognize your own mistakes. Rick changed the culture of the community where he lives, and theres nothing that makes a backward Baptist angrier than the church growth success of someone like Rick Warren. Never mind He died on a cross because of our terrible, damning sin and He created the world out of nothing. (If youre not, then you can ignore me here.) Julie I have read your post and am in 100 percent agreement with your assessment. I was wondering when wed get to this. On the other hand, you cant skip fundamentals like the seriousness of sin, Hell, and repentance and still be sharing the whole gospel. Lance and his wife, Connie, have been married thirty-eight years and have two married children and four beautiful granddaughters. You prop up a gospel that nobody can live up to so you feel superior. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand. Everything you wrote is factual, it is an assessment based on Gods Word, not the relativistic moods of society. I didnt have much time for family, and I remember sometimes my wife and I would discuss how I was never there. Im not suggesting an addict will be in recovery the next day. With that in mind, Im fine with making the story easy to understand. Put some of your training online, or give volunteers a handout. He has limited time, limited focus, limited boundaries. Third, experiences dont trump the Bible. Can you articulate that? You should be baptized, but maybe you should learn how to discern a healthy Christian church from the, ahem, not so good ones You dont want to get baptized somewhere youll later regret. Its also great to see you backing up your thoughts with Scripture. Im a homemaker, mother of five, and pastors wife. My family has a history of alcoholism, and I watched my mom slowly kill herself through her addiction. Public teachers do not fall under the Matthew 18 category. And what about unbelievers? Unfortunately, the SBC runs like a microcosm of a government. (RNS) Leaders at Rick Warren's Saddleback Church say a preliminary investigation has cleared Andy Wood, Warren's recently announced successor, of allegations made by a former . Whats really driving me? When you always say yes, when youre always available, when youre going faster and your pace is beyond what it should be, learn to ask that question. The notion that women should be silent in church, found in 1 Timothy 2:12 and 1 Corinthians 14:3, refers specifically to instances of the church and marriage. Then, one day my wife said, Theres always a reason or a season why you cant be who youre supposed to be. I had to get to the place where I really owned my spiritual health. Im actually sad that he is so liberal and strays from the gospel. Thanks for leaving a comment. Its right there. Females from cover to cover in the Bible have been used by God, and they will continue to be used by Him in the future, as they are obedient in following his leading in their lives. None of the churches gave a clear gospel presentation. You should have watched and listen to the Saddleback sermon this Sunday. Nobody else was responsible. Although we do not see eye to eye on this topic, I do pray you have many blessings in the years to come. I love your positivity and focus on that. And, without a doubt, that is so true of me. Someone in recovery but not saved is ultimately no better off. I think you should know the Bible more than just basing it in one scripture. Visit GriefShare.org/start and see more reasons why thousands of churches use GriefShare. Give people a simple, easy, low-cost opportunity to get involved. That is sin. is loved by everyone, then I need to look closely for the problem. There are many verses that teach caution, 1 John 4:1; 2 John 1: 7-11; Romans 16:17; and 1 Timothy 6: 3-5 to name a few. There is a difference between appropriate healthy sacrifice and an unhealthy approach to ministry that is often driven out of people pleasing or need for approval. You and your kind are the epitome of a modern Pharisee. Saddleback, like many mega-churches, uses its online platform (the website) as a marketing strategy with testimonials, self-help sayings (You werent just meant to believe; You were made to belong.), and an almost idolatrous love of the pastor/founder. Before this ordaining women fiasco, though, I already had reservations about Rick Warren and Saddleback Church. Church growth can be through the roof. Know Ephesians 4. The page is reminiscent of a fan page on a boy band website. Whats the big deal, you ask? It also features the stories of over 75 everyday people whove applied biblical principles to heal from grief. Thank you so much for doing what you do. If there are 47,000 Southern Baptist churches and 20 years from now you only have 20,0000 men who want to be pastors, there are going to be some tough decisions to be made. Its not minor to openly and unrepentantly disobey Gods Word by ordaining female pastors. He has limited gifts. Tibayan. It might not be the way you think is right, but only God sees ones true heart and intentions. And when a person knows doctrine, then that person can identify when someone is teaching something inconsistent with Gods Word. Scriptural qualifications also say pastors must be apt to teach, they must be the husband of one wife, they must be not given to wine its all in the Bible in 1st Timothy Chapter 3. My issue with Saddleback Church has nothing to do with nonessential issues. I would appreciate any input. Here is the Associated Press:. And I am so happy that you found a church that digs into the meat of the Word. Maybe it is. Every time I receive a comment on this post, I close my eyes and click on it with hesitancy. Im not. Saddleback changes the SBC. We need to change how we see God, not ourselves. If Christians love their Ted Talk pastor more than Gods Word and His instructions, then I dont know what to say. The work in the nursery, on the missions committee, etc., is just as important as a pastors calling. Challies gives an example of Warren using Job 22:21, Acquaint now thyself with him, and be at peace: thereby good shall come unto thee. Warren uses this verse in a positive way in his book. Christians ought to start with the Bible, not tack it onto what they already believe. I agree that God can do anything through anything. On the other hand, continued CR attendance is imperative. Copyright 2020 The Set-Apart Walk. Large pictures of him living his best life now while describing him in such a way that it feels a little cultish. Im saying women cant be pastors/elders. I have spent some time looking up CR, meditation, and even that quote specifically since I read your question. None of your other fellow Christians are nails. Third, you told me that I might have stopped people from finding God. If you want to investigate this issue, Id start HERE. And for some, like my mother, it proves to be stronger than they are. We actually changed some of our terminology: Instead of considering yourself the leader of this small group, could you just host a group in your home and facilitate? Just that simple language change made a difference. Our seminary enrollment is down. I, myself, had a dangerous drinking habit into my mid-twenties. Hi Julie, I agree with much of what you say, though I think you are over thinking it God uses many questionable things but people get saved. Its beautiful, and Rick Warren often leaves this out a lot. Well, CR is the icing on the cake of this hot mess we call Rick Warren ministry. Additionally, I know many Southern Baptists have spoken about their concerns with Saddleback and had zero response. The program also consists of eight principles for recovery from the Beatitudes. When we did 40 Days of Purpose, a study guide for The Purpose Driven Life, we had 2,100 small groups. Warrens church identifies as Southern Baptist, and they are out of step with Southern Baptist beliefs in ordaining women. It happened in the wake of Saddlebacks determination as an autonomous local church to ordain female ministers not as senior pastors of the church, but as associate ministers of the church. At the same time, the addiction is the secondary issue. (Romans 14:1,22). Every time someone, hits you with a negative or personal attack, you come right back because youre argument is based purely on scripture and I am blown away and in some cases admittedly Im a bit amused at how professionally and to the point you handle everything. Deborah Netburn covers faith, spirituality and joy for the Los Angeles Times. So does verse 13 that gives the reason. I marvel at your self righteous self proclaimed view that you are the only person in all Christianity that has the one true oath. The book makes no mention of sin, the need for a Savior, Jesus life, His death at the cross, or the empty tomb. Some of that was because of the pace and the demands, but some of it was also because I didnt lead myself very well. They dont need to know about hell; they live there and in addiction they are prevented from thinking of anything but them selves that is what addiction is. Also, make the training simple and easy. - The Set-Apart Walk, https://thesetapartwalk.com/why-i-wont-apologize-for-calling-out-false-teachers/, 4 LifeWay Red Flags That Should Send You Running - The Set-Apart Walk, Why I Wont Apologize For Calling Out False Teachers - The Set-Apart Walk, https://www.christianpost.com/news/rick-warren-to-muslims-talk-is-cheap-let-s-work-together.html, Why Churches Are Becoming LGBTQ+ Allies - The Set-Apart Walk, Rick Warren And The Problem With Celebrity Pastors - The Set-Apart Walk, https://thesetapartwalk.com/progressive-christianity-not-all-progress-is-good/, https://thesetapartwalk.com/christian-unity-is-not-what-you-think-it-is/, https://thesetapartwalk.com/catholicism-is-not-biblical-christianity/, https://thesetapartwalk.com/why-churches-are-becoming-lgbtq-allies/, https://thesetapartwalk.com/how-to-identify-a-bad-ladies-bible-teacher/, https://thesetapartwalk.com/rick-warren-and-the-problem-with-celebrity-pastors/, Christian Unity Is Not What You Think It Is - The Set-Apart Walk, Responding To Your Feedback: Part 1 - The Set-Apart Walk. . But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. CR also encourages participants to improve their self-esteem and self-image. And discover how GriefShare can equip your church to launch and sustain a proven care and outreach ministry. Julie Well, Southern Baptists dont approve of female pastors becausethe Bible. The Resolution on Ordination and the Role of Women in Ministry, passed by the SBC, draws on Paul's conduct in the ancient Roman church in its disapproval of women holding in pastoral positions.. ( The Desert Sun Video) The top pastor of Southwest Church in Indian Wells was asked to resign because he refused to condemn homosexuality, he explained in his resignation letter. Rather, filter your worldview and beliefs through the truth of His Word. You bring up some very important thoughts. But it was a startling turn of events when the SBC . Yet, his frequent use of proof-texting and his ordination of women proves He plays a bit too fast and loose with his Bible interpretations. However, a Christian addictions program ought to avoid promoting self over Jesus. Thank you for this post. Im definitely not straining gnats by pointing out that a world famous pastor gives a weak gospel or maybe even none at all. Instead, the couple shepherded the large church through the COVID-19 pandemic and a shutdown than would affect the church for about 14 months. I love family, homeschooling, and most of all Jesus. That just breaks my heart. I'm so happy to say that my church now has a campus on my hometown of South Bay here in . Rapid-fire unrelated questions dont typically lead to a fruitful conversation. Second, you did not address any of my criticisms with counterarguments. The selection of Andy Wood and his wife, Stacie, to succeed Rick and Kay Warren as leaders of the California-based Saddleback Church has triggered "shock" and "fear" in some who have worked with Wood over concerns over what they characterize as leadership abuse. June 8, 2021 5 AM PT Rick Warren, the founder of a sprawling megachurch, a bestselling author and one of the most influential figures in American evangelicalism, is retiring as lead pastor of. Stop sieving the Bible through your worldview and presuppositions. Lets talk about what that might look like. Warren uses a lot of Bible verses in The Purpose Driven Life, but he consistently engages in eisegesis.

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